Monday, August 31, 2009
Sunday, August 30, 2009
Spotted in Westwood
electronic kiosks.
Thursday, August 27, 2009
Wednesday, August 19, 2009
Part II: Rear Hubs
First, let me dispense with something real quick:
Lemond Poprad 130mm 135mm Rear Disc Mountain Road Cyclocross Brake Rotor Spacers Spacing Frame Steel True Temper Mounts Hubs Spreading Stretching Removing
Phew... I think that'll do it. You see, I'd like this post to show up in the future when folks are searching for answers. The kind of answer I was searching for and couldn't find, but figured out.
Allow me to summerize the issue that was touched on in yesterday's post:
Road bike rear hubs are spaced 130mm.
Mountain bike rear hubs are spaced 135mm.
Road bikes rarely have disc brakes.
Mountain bikes often do.
Lemond Poprad Disc frames are 130mm.
Therefore, mountain bike rear hubs don't fit.
It's hard to find a manufacturer making 130mm rear disc hubs.
The most common questions I found asked on the internet:
Can't I just remove 5mm worth of spacers on a mountain bike hub?
Can't I just stretch the frame 5mm?
The answer to both is NO.
Of course, let me qualify this in the way I often need to in the shop. You CAN do whatever you want. Remove spacers, hacksaw it, stretch it. It MAY work just fine. There's things that can be done and modified to make just about anything work. I understand that, but you should understand it's just not the way you should do it.
In regards to stretching the frame, it's only even an option if the frame is steel. Under NO circumstances should you stretch out a carbon or aluminum frame. That's just asking for failure. Don't believe me? Next time you drink a soda, bend the empty can in half. Now bend it back. After a few times, you'll see it split. Now imagine bending the backend of your aluminum frame back and forth each time you take your rear wheel out. The reason you shouldn't stretch a steel frame is similar; it stresses the rear end of the bike in a way the frame builder did not anticipate. This could lead to premeature wear and/or failure. Granted, the steel can handle it better than aluminum, but it's still not good for it.
Now, removing spacers and hacking off the quick release axle; don't. In theory, it makes sense. If you need 130mm and have 135, remove 5. Done and done. But after discussing it with a major aftermarket hub manufacturer, I learned why this doesn't really work...
Your disc rotor needs to be in a very specific place in order to line up with the caliper. Your cassette needs to be in a very specific place to accommodate proper chainline and to clear the frame. These measurements are taken inward from the end of the axle. Therefore, removing 5mm of spacers, in any combination from either side, will greatly effect those spacings and measurement. Thus, your disc rotor and/or cassette will not properly line up. When hub manufacturers produce these different hubs, the 5mm difference is somewhere in the middle of the hub, not the ends.
If you need a 130mm rear disc hub, it looks like you're stuck like I am. Phil Wood, Chris King or Velocity, if you want to build a wheel. Bontrager or Mavic, if you want a wheelset.
Lemond Poprad 130mm 135mm Rear Disc Mountain Road Cyclocross Brake Rotor Spacers Spacing Frame Steel True Temper Mounts Hubs Spreading Stretching Removing
Phew... I think that'll do it. You see, I'd like this post to show up in the future when folks are searching for answers. The kind of answer I was searching for and couldn't find, but figured out.
Allow me to summerize the issue that was touched on in yesterday's post:
Road bike rear hubs are spaced 130mm.
Mountain bike rear hubs are spaced 135mm.
Road bikes rarely have disc brakes.
Mountain bikes often do.
Lemond Poprad Disc frames are 130mm.
Therefore, mountain bike rear hubs don't fit.
It's hard to find a manufacturer making 130mm rear disc hubs.
The most common questions I found asked on the internet:
Can't I just remove 5mm worth of spacers on a mountain bike hub?
Can't I just stretch the frame 5mm?
The answer to both is NO.
Of course, let me qualify this in the way I often need to in the shop. You CAN do whatever you want. Remove spacers, hacksaw it, stretch it. It MAY work just fine. There's things that can be done and modified to make just about anything work. I understand that, but you should understand it's just not the way you should do it.
In regards to stretching the frame, it's only even an option if the frame is steel. Under NO circumstances should you stretch out a carbon or aluminum frame. That's just asking for failure. Don't believe me? Next time you drink a soda, bend the empty can in half. Now bend it back. After a few times, you'll see it split. Now imagine bending the backend of your aluminum frame back and forth each time you take your rear wheel out. The reason you shouldn't stretch a steel frame is similar; it stresses the rear end of the bike in a way the frame builder did not anticipate. This could lead to premeature wear and/or failure. Granted, the steel can handle it better than aluminum, but it's still not good for it.
Now, removing spacers and hacking off the quick release axle; don't. In theory, it makes sense. If you need 130mm and have 135, remove 5. Done and done. But after discussing it with a major aftermarket hub manufacturer, I learned why this doesn't really work...
Your disc rotor needs to be in a very specific place in order to line up with the caliper. Your cassette needs to be in a very specific place to accommodate proper chainline and to clear the frame. These measurements are taken inward from the end of the axle. Therefore, removing 5mm of spacers, in any combination from either side, will greatly effect those spacings and measurement. Thus, your disc rotor and/or cassette will not properly line up. When hub manufacturers produce these different hubs, the 5mm difference is somewhere in the middle of the hub, not the ends.
If you need a 130mm rear disc hub, it looks like you're stuck like I am. Phil Wood, Chris King or Velocity, if you want to build a wheel. Bontrager or Mavic, if you want a wheelset.
Tuesday, August 18, 2009
Rims, Hubs and Spokes; Oh My.
"Strong, Light, Cheap; Pick Two."
That used to be Bontrager's motto, pre-Trek. Their products were bad-ass. Nowadays though, it seems they're just the new name thrown on Trek-owned product in a marketing effort to not simply have "Trek" on everything. Other notables in the Trek marketing graveyard are Matrix, Icon, Jazz, Rolf (sorta) and now Lemond.
Some of the products are really innovative and awesome. Some are downright terrible. Most are completely right in the middle. That is; you're not dying to replace them, but not dying to keep them either.
My roundabout (as per usual) point is, I bought a Lemond bike years ago and it came almost completely stocked with Bontrager parts. They are almost completely gone, and now it's almost time for the next one(s) to go away: the Bontrager Select Road Disc wheelset. There's nothing really wrong with them, except that I simply don't like them. Never have. I don't like the way they look, I don't like the fact that they're black, I don't like trying to true the stupid low-spoke count design. I just plain don't like them. And they don't ride poorly, nor very good.
Admittedly, buying a disc brake only "road" bike could be considered a mistake. Especially since Lemond/Trek decided to make it a true 130mm spaced road frame. This presents a problem since nearly all disc hubs are for mountain bikes and nearly all mountain bikes are 135mm spacing. But more on this in a moment...
I love Clementine, she's probably my most favoritest bike I've ever owned, I'll find a way to work around her limitations (like I did when I broke the carbon legged Bontrager fork, and found a better suited fork in the Vicious Cross fork, which seemed to be the only fork of the spec I wanted/needed). So I've been trying to determine what components I'll be using to build the Bontrager's replacements.
First of all, they'll be 32 spoke wheels. And they'll be all silver (polished where possible). I'm not looking for exotic on these wheels, just good solid wheels, so I'll be using Mavic Open Pro rims and Wheelsmith DB14 spokes. And for those curious on the "how", I use Sheldon Brown's wheelbuilding guide (plus a little knowledge I've picked up along the way), the Park SW-0/TW-1/TS-2 tools, a vintage Campy dishing tool, Rock N Roll Nipple Cream and an EVT 'Mulfinger'' Nipple Loader.
Initially and in my dreams, these wheels were to be Phil Wood hubs. But seriously, those things are fucking expensive (pardon my language, but they really are...). So being that I'm not really in any position to spend $500-1000 on hubs...
[pause for tangent]
a.) I'm not in the position to spend *any* money on new wheels, which is why this hasn't happened yet. I'll be repositioning some of my cycling-related assets to acquire these pieces one at a time. You should see me on the wheels described here sometime around 2012.
b.) Yes, even for me, even with an employee purchase program that costs below normal wholesale, the Phil Wood hubs I need are over $500 for the pair.
[/pause for tangent]
...I went in search of alternatives.
Finding a front was cake. When I raced MTB back in the '90's, I always wanted Paul stuff. It was pretty. When I saw their stuff again this week (not realizing they were still around...), it was still pretty and I still wanted it. So I've settled on the very reasonably priced Paul Component Disk FHUB. I wrote them, and spoke to Paul himself, who also informed me that he'd be able to high polish it for a small additional charge. I almost peed.
The rear is more of an issue, and seeing how long-winded this has gotten, I'm going to save that for tomorrow. You see, my research for a rear led me to a lot of questions with few answers (and some very incorrect ones)...
That used to be Bontrager's motto, pre-Trek. Their products were bad-ass. Nowadays though, it seems they're just the new name thrown on Trek-owned product in a marketing effort to not simply have "Trek" on everything. Other notables in the Trek marketing graveyard are Matrix, Icon, Jazz, Rolf (sorta) and now Lemond.
Some of the products are really innovative and awesome. Some are downright terrible. Most are completely right in the middle. That is; you're not dying to replace them, but not dying to keep them either.
My roundabout (as per usual) point is, I bought a Lemond bike years ago and it came almost completely stocked with Bontrager parts. They are almost completely gone, and now it's almost time for the next one(s) to go away: the Bontrager Select Road Disc wheelset. There's nothing really wrong with them, except that I simply don't like them. Never have. I don't like the way they look, I don't like the fact that they're black, I don't like trying to true the stupid low-spoke count design. I just plain don't like them. And they don't ride poorly, nor very good.
Admittedly, buying a disc brake only "road" bike could be considered a mistake. Especially since Lemond/Trek decided to make it a true 130mm spaced road frame. This presents a problem since nearly all disc hubs are for mountain bikes and nearly all mountain bikes are 135mm spacing. But more on this in a moment...
I love Clementine, she's probably my most favoritest bike I've ever owned, I'll find a way to work around her limitations (like I did when I broke the carbon legged Bontrager fork, and found a better suited fork in the Vicious Cross fork, which seemed to be the only fork of the spec I wanted/needed). So I've been trying to determine what components I'll be using to build the Bontrager's replacements.
First of all, they'll be 32 spoke wheels. And they'll be all silver (polished where possible). I'm not looking for exotic on these wheels, just good solid wheels, so I'll be using Mavic Open Pro rims and Wheelsmith DB14 spokes. And for those curious on the "how", I use Sheldon Brown's wheelbuilding guide (plus a little knowledge I've picked up along the way), the Park SW-0/TW-1/TS-2 tools, a vintage Campy dishing tool, Rock N Roll Nipple Cream and an EVT 'Mulfinger'' Nipple Loader.
Initially and in my dreams, these wheels were to be Phil Wood hubs. But seriously, those things are fucking expensive (pardon my language, but they really are...). So being that I'm not really in any position to spend $500-1000 on hubs...
[pause for tangent]
a.) I'm not in the position to spend *any* money on new wheels, which is why this hasn't happened yet. I'll be repositioning some of my cycling-related assets to acquire these pieces one at a time. You should see me on the wheels described here sometime around 2012.
b.) Yes, even for me, even with an employee purchase program that costs below normal wholesale, the Phil Wood hubs I need are over $500 for the pair.
[/pause for tangent]
...I went in search of alternatives.
Finding a front was cake. When I raced MTB back in the '90's, I always wanted Paul stuff. It was pretty. When I saw their stuff again this week (not realizing they were still around...), it was still pretty and I still wanted it. So I've settled on the very reasonably priced Paul Component Disk FHUB. I wrote them, and spoke to Paul himself, who also informed me that he'd be able to high polish it for a small additional charge. I almost peed.
The rear is more of an issue, and seeing how long-winded this has gotten, I'm going to save that for tomorrow. You see, my research for a rear led me to a lot of questions with few answers (and some very incorrect ones)...
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